MembersPage/SkassaTriggerSubaru (2015-01-01 07:00:00)
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Strobe shows different angle than what we expect

with (InputTrigger/ShortGapTrigger) InputTrigger/SubaruTrigger :

It is the strobe that shows half of what´s written

I was tuning the car last night, and the advance seems to be off:

it changes only +15 crankdegree (to 25 BTDC), not +30 crankdegree (to 40 deg BTDC) as it should
  • measured on the crank, of course (not on cam)
  • some smart strobes are confused by the wasted spark ignition, this actually happens quite often.
  • Can you do measurements the 40deg and 10 deg with same strobe settings (or a dumb strobe, and see angle difference on engine ?)
Can you describe the strobe and its usage in great detail ? there is just 2wires for power and gound, and a 3rd with the inductive feeler to put on the ignitionwire.
  • if it lights up at the time of spark (seems likely if it has no buttons) and you read from the rotating crankshaft, than the chance of getting it measured wrong is minimal indeed.
  • Want to test with Sami's 1.0.77 compile that Jorgen drove for quite a while now and found good. Anyone have that firmware image ?

This way earliest is 37.5 crankdegrees BTDC (max commanded ignadv is 63.75 degrees.


This is from the helpful [VEMS FORUM]

There are trigger errors when cranking, though the wiring seems OK

by the ecu going in and out sync.

Could this maybe also be the problem here??

  • the "crank minimum usec" shouldn't cause that (you can set it to 370 usec, that is 20 degrees at 9000RPM, or you can even try 0). If it's too high, high-RPM triggerinput will not be believed
We tryed to scoop the trigger input a pin3 on the lm1815, and the output on pin12, but the scoop is not picking up much on the output, so the scop is not fast enought to pick the spikes up(4000pkt/sec),

We could then only try some differents things,

We mounted a 3.3kohm pullup on both the cas and cam, buth then the car gives no idication of being willing to try to start.

THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTEN THING TO GET TO WORK, as it´s this is not something that can be lived with

I would like suggestions to make this work fast!.

Can it run on a 4-1wheel, as i then can remove 3 teeth, or can the vems not read this as weel?, or do i have to make a 36-1 wheel?.-I'm trying to use this method on a car here nowadays.-FERO

  • thanks for your comment, I have been told to make a new 12volt+ wire to the vems, directly from the batteri, i will try that, but i´m positive that will make no change,
Tonight i will get a 36-1 wheel made, as this is a costumers car, and i simply think that i cant have the car here anymore,so i will take the timing belt of again,So i can try this, and if that fail, i will then change to another box.

But i hope and belive that 36-1 will work.


Scop pics we captured the other night first pic is pin 3(yellow) and pin7 green this is from the primary trigger.

3og7p.jpg

next is a closeup of the same

3og7p_zoom.jpg

This does not look right as there is lots of noise on pin 7, maybe this is the problem with the cranking problem?

next is secondary trigger pin3 yellow and pin 7green

3og7s.jpg

This looks more right

But it seems random how long it takes to start the car

Can any of you that know comment on if this triggerwheel looks like it can be read be a VEMS ecu, as i dont have more time to mock around, with a car that cant start probbely, becourse of the vems not being able to read the oe trigger wheels like i hoped it could,but cant.

If so i will get one made!

36-1sub.jpg

Can i get a comment on that today 13/7-2008.

So i can get a machineshop to make me one.

Link to some info to how ms extra does subaru, can any of you see what the vems is missing to filter the noise, if this ms extra setup works, interesting that they trigger on raising egde

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_Subaru.htm

Another link with a sulution to ms setup with the exact same symtems as i got when cranking.

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=28092


We scoped the oe dwell time, and that is 3ms.

NewFile_07.jpg

  • Now cranking 200 RPM (OK),
  • car runs fine, when it is started, only cranking is out of sync
  • but sometimes backfires during cranking?
  • this is worse when the weather is colder, and better when warmer, like now.

Crank and camsensor signal scopeshot - looks OK. VR (LM1815 input) triggering on falling edge of the EC36/27 and EC18/12

Subarutriggerpicture.jpg

Also measure DC voltage of both triggers (engine off, but ignition on).

This is measured on a Legacy turbo 92´ and a Impreza turbo 99´

subaru_6_7_timing_chart.gif


This subaru legacy is running the 6/7 trigger setup

as it seems no one have had this running with a VEMS yet, i hope to have some help setting this up,

I will, then document it,so it will be pnp for other users.

D.10/7-2008 :This is the current setting.

Firing order 1-3-2-4


primary_trigger=29

secondary_trigger=59

tooth_wheel=02

trigger_tooth=00

another_trigger_tooth=03

crank_minper=BC

tooth_wheel_twidth1=00

tooth_wheel_twidth2=00

cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00

cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00

reset_engphase_after=04