MembersPage/YasecElise

Elise / K-Rover trigger

From fw 1.2.17, this special trigger is also supported with camsync

This trigger supports cylinder numbers:



Best location of the LCD display is on the removable steering wheel.

So, after searching a bit for the wireless connection of the VEMS display with the RS232 link, I find the RF Solutions company in GB, they have the right solution for that. (Try before with ZigBee?, but this kind of wireless communication is not the best from technical side)

There the link:

http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk/acatalog/Smart_Radio_433_Transceiver_Module.html

I do now a bit research for the best display module for the VEMS. Too small displays are not practical, if we count with the vibrations in most of the racecars today.

Bye: Yasec

The car got an 1.6L 4cyl NA engine because it is believed to better compete in that class, compared to the 1.8L engine.

Location: 3h drive West from Budapest (Sopron, at Austrian border).

Because of illness the project was delayed, but it should be completed

This engine has a special trigger, and the PlugAndPlay harness makes overview and debug hard.


IAC

MembersPage/YasecElise/IdleAir Simple bipolar stepper


MembersPage/YasecElise/Ignition


MAP / AlphaN

The engine has a MAP sensor. However, because of very aggressive cams, some loadsites might need to be tuned from TPS (AlphaN).


Trigger - Rover K-series wheel (we refer to it as "elise" trigger)

The engine has camsync, but because of wasted spark, only primary trigger will be used for now.

Is there a chance that something is fundamentally wrong with the trigger ?

Maybe the trigger is HALL ? can you measure ohm between trigger pins ? Both polarity.

Try to record the trigger signal with notebook soundcard.

Try 20k pullup on the trigger signal.

This crankwheel is very smart construction, because it can sync in half revolution (often even earlier!).

We made some modifications to signalgen to generate the wav sound files to test the trigger setup on the table. Firmware code was tested against this.

Lotus_crank_wheel_36-hell_counted_s.jpg

The trigger is supported from 1.0.38 with the following setting (multitooth, no camsync) MAKE SURE YOU TRY THESE TOO, there is a mismatch right at the very first (primary_trigger=00 is not 01 although it might work with both edges if the sensor is HALL for sure):

Take InputTrigger/TriggerLog to check the tooth pulsetrain correctness. (upload the binary too, and possibly the output after formatted with perl binary.pl < terminal.log > terminal.txt )

Because of the extremely fast acceleration (this engine has a special coating and lightweight structure) and the special trigger wheel, some modifications were necessary to the advanced multitooth filter.

Trying 1.0.48 experimental firmware ... http://cell.dyndns.ws/del/v3_firmware_1.0.48.zip

Test results with 1.1.88

Rover-K_Lotus-elise_(e324) trigger fixed in firmware 1.1.88

Works with camsync too.

To configure just use the "rover-k_lotus-elise_e324 "configlet in primary trigger settings.

Tested config: http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/YasecElise/v3.3_n001212-A-2011.01.25-10.52.59.vemscfg


A describtion of the trigger (HU; just to confirm the direction and position seen on the image):

Mind1, itt küldöm a képet, immáron dedikált lendkerékkel.
A felső holtpont fizikailag ott van, ahol a lendkerék tövében a csap van.
(azaz van 6db felfogató csavar + 1 tájoló csap, na a csap van felül
holtponton)
A jeladó ehez képest lejjebb van, gondoltam azt a bordát jelölöm meg, amit
"lát" a szenzor felső holtpontban. Komikus mód ez úgy semmilyen rendszerben
nincs semmivel se.
Utána a forgásirány szerint még kettő bordát "olvas" a szenzor, és kezdődik
az első kihagyás.


Udv Yas

Azt hittem soha nem fox feliratkozni.:) Lenne 1 kersem:) Ha lehetne akkor kommentalnad magyarul is a torteneseket? Lassan azert tanulok angolul:)

A_Feri/Saybor:)

Here are the configuration files:

[config]

[tables]

InputTrigger/TriggerLog

Seems very nice, signal and polarity is correct. Analysis of the file, missing teeth:

3,13,2,14, ... pattern seems correct for the wheel.

worst case: (note that the log is very-very short read below! There are likely to be worse cases)

The problem is, that the engine stroke kicks the engine at the 169 position, so the crank accelerates (I guess it has a lightweight flywheel).

Therefore the 1318 (*4 usec) difference is followed by 1869 difference, which is LESS THAN 1.5 * 1328. Normally a missing tooth is 2x normal tooth, and the standard code only consides it missing if >1.5 x

We must use multitooth advanced filter (checking toothrel_ ... on GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges), and set the treshold, so 1869 / 1318=1.41 is accepted as missing tooth.


Explanation - N,n,M,m are one hexa digit each:

OLD semantics - before 1.0.40

If the tg (time-gap) between 2 teeth compared to tg_prev (previous time-gap)

NEW semantics - since 1.0.41

If the tg (time-gap) between 2 teeth compared to tg_prev (previous time-gap)

As you see, for the missing-tooth condition, original 1.5+m/8 changed to 1.25+m/8 in http://www.vems.hu/files/Firmware/release/v3_firmware_1.0.41.zip

In our case, it's critical than N is 6 or less. Thresholds for different config:

Apparently it's problematic to define a good threshold for this engine. 1.5 was too high by any means, 1.375 didn't work either (we don't know exactly why, it didn't improve from 1.5).

The best is somewhere between 1.16 and 1.41, my vote is to try

If it really doesn't want to work - note: longer triggerlog needed to decide -maybe (but this is hard, requires nontrivial firmware mod)

Also upload the binary triggerlog (before formatting with binary.pl). Use zip if fileyhingy otherwise does not allow upload.

Analysis of new [log2]

This is a long log, with appr 33 perfect crank rotations.

With improved binary.pl (see http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/YasecElise/trig2_all.zip ) it's easier to spot MISSINGTOOTH for certain threshold (default 1.5, but any other (like 1.31) can be specified on the command line.

The right side is interesting (left side is rabbish), after some good MISSINGTOOTH 13,2,14,3 patterns, the missing tooth was missed, look at the 15 (should be =13+2):

257							3518	1.63 MISSINGTOOTH 14
258	48646	1.77 MISSINGTOOTH 2
259							1565	0.44 
260	7430	0.15 
261							1543	0.98 
262	1804	0.24 
263							3151	2.04 MISSINGTOOTH 3
264	20230	11.21 MISSINGTOOTH 3
265							1620	0.51 
266	21511	1.06 
267							1717	1.05 
268	46343	2.15 MISSINGTOOTH 2
269							1855	1.08 
270	16137	0.34 
271							2090	1.12 
272	10761	0.66 
273							2477	1.18 
274	44297	4.11 MISSINGTOOTH 3
275							2282	0.92 
276	59914	1.35 MISSINGTOOTH 1
277							2427	1.06 
278	31498	0.52 
279							2530	1.04 
280	57866	1.83 MISSINGTOOTH 2
281							2670	1.05 
282	28171	0.48 
283							2734	1.02 
284	44553	1.58 MISSINGTOOTH 2
285							2478	0.9 
286	44551	0.99 
287							1702	0.68 
288	42504	0.95 
289							2168	1.27      HERE_IS_THE_MISSED_MISSING_TOOTH_PROBLEM
290	30724	0.72 
291							837	0.38 
292	17414	0.56 
293							1560	1.86 MISSINGTOOTH 15
294	6147	0.35 
295							723	0.46 

While the trigger and RPM seemed clean without combustion (eg if no injectors), wheel errors started when injectors got power and combustion took place. This had 2 reason (not easy to find, and almost impossible without above triggerlog):

1.0.49 compiled with ONLY_LAST_TOOTHTIME defined allowed this engine to run.

Earlier (without combustion), it was clearly seen, that 1..2 tooth before the MISSINGTOOTH (after the long, 13 or 14 periods) the engine accelerates appr 10% every tooth. It is so consistent (0.93, 0.81 and 0.92, 0.82, but really very consistent throughout the whole long log!) that makes it suspect there is no combustion taking place AT ALL, we just see the compressed air acting in the cylinder accelerating the engine. RPM was all fine, but with combustion it all went wrong because of the extreme angular acceleration.

So what's wrong with this setup ?

The original loom (remember than plug-and-play install is always much more problematic than making a new loom) is somewhat brain-dead. The supply to the injectors, fuel-pump, ignition transformers (and ECU) is fed from the starter-motor, instead of the battery. This might mean 1..2V more voltage drop than necessary, which can make a big difference (starting or not), especially with a discharged battery.

Engine started after the supply+ was connsected properly, from the battery. Looking back, this was rather a miracle

The problem was easy to fix (though developer help was needed) when publishing InputTrigger/TriggerLog (see above).

No amount of hard work would help start this engine without doing this triggerlog.


Engine is running

some tuning to do, and upload config and tables.

IIRC trigger_tooth=04 and ign_tdcdelay=54 crankdegrees

Multitooth advanced filter (primary_trigger=09) settings (if Marcell remembers correctly, Fero should update):

old files:

[config]

[tables]

[Megatunelog]


Question?

Is there a final known good set of trigger settings for this engine?

Some very old files:

Firmware 1.0.41 with individual throttle bodies:

http://www.vems.hu/files/Fero/lotus/config.txt

http://www.vems.hu/files/Fero/lotus/tables.txt

http://www.vems.hu/files/Fero/lotus/Elise40.msq