MembersPage/NanassyPeter/AudiMissingTooth

Back to MembersPage/NanassyPeter

15 minus 1 trigger installed on Inline 5 Audi engine

Primary trigger is a 15-1 (yes, missing tooth!) crankwheel with [GT101 HALL sensor]

(which pulls down when it detects ferromagnetic material and leaves the signal high in the gap, as pulled up by the pullup resistor).

The falling edge (metal coming in) right after the missing tooth is 2 teeth+60degs = 48 crankdeg + 60 crankdeg = 108 crankdegrees BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER Cyl1

Secondary trigger (HALL)

Pulse (falling or rising edge?) is set 10deg BEFORE primary trigger missing tooth.

trigger_tooth

trigger_tooth teeth used for trigger
00 0, 6, 12, 18, 24
01 1, 7, 13, 19, 25
02 2, 8, 14, 20, 26 BAD
03 3, 9, 15, 21, 27
04 4, 10, 16, 22, 28
05 5, 11, 17, 23, 29 BAD

As you see, 00 .. 01 or 03..04 are good values, 02 and 05 are BAD because tooth 14 and 29 simply does NOT exist. Because of the missing tooth, after 0..13 the toothcount jumps to 15 (tooth 14 is skipped), and after 15..28 it jumps to 0 (which would be same as 30, that is 2 cam rotations). Tooth 29 is skipped as well. This is the same situation as with a 6cyl 60-2, where another_trigger_tooth=14 (decimal 20) and 0..17 are valid for trigger tooth (18 or 19 is not, because 58 and 59 missing).


Camsync position

Main positions to take note of

that should be fine (always come between the cyl1 and cyl2 sparktime), and match the ignition sequence (read on).

mct

h[2]=01 00 02 04 03 .. .. ..

ign sequence:

ignch cyl cam position when TDC (crankdegree) crankdegree mod 360 = crank position when TDC (crankdegree) triggertooth TDC-tooth
ignch1 cyl2 144 144 21 24
ignch0 cyl1 0 0 15 18
ignch2 cyl3 576 216 9 12
ignch4 cyl5 432 72 3 6
ignch3 cyl4 288 288 27 0

This assumes that after camsync (chosen edge, eg. falling) comes, ignch1 =cyl2 fires. Than the igncount is resetted to ignchmax(=04), that is ignch3 (cyl4) to follow.

As you see, trigger_tooth=03 is good value for this.

.... the rest of h[2] ignition sequence is don't care, since ignchmax is 04 (5 cyl)


Result

Fires well on the bench, but something is not perfect on the real engine. It weakens at several points and lambda shows >10.0 values (O2 present, missfire ?).

What can be wrong ? The engine was running earlier with HALL trigger and distributor (though pistons were changed since than)

Also, the main (coolant radiator) fan got stuck (not fun), the motor might have burnt down (the wire insulation melted!). Not a 15 minute task to replace on this engine (but 2..3 hours).


Cars current status:

After replacing the stucked fan,we tried different settings on the engine (with the old config it was way too rich(but why?)

With 0.69 lambda all the way from 160kpa it was nor revving clearly (past 6K)and this is with dwell set to 3.

I leaned out to 0.77-0.8 then tried different dwell settings from 2.5 to 3.5,higher settings were much better.

We run then on Tököls DRAGBeach,we did a record (personal and this years category too) 11.18@196.In the finals we unfortunately lost out tranny again the gearchange fork broke again.So second place.Note that this is with shiftlight set at 6900,this engine needs to rev to 8500 to make its full power.

Looks like we reached the limits of the overlapping dwell,so i suggest a firmware mod for this ASAP.I also want to thank Mcells great support!


experimentation with bad primary_trigger config value

While we were lucky enough to get the engine running with totally misconfigured values (another_trigger_tooth=03 and reverse sequence ;-), it was running really poor and showed 2x higher RPM (than real).

firmware version= 1.0.45

Both mcd and mct are important to reproduce.

// amendment from MembersPage/AttilaSzucs

I've got the same problem. (firmware 38 and 45) My crank trigger is a 36-1, currently configured for cheating waste spark (4 COPs, dual ign). Few weeks ago I wanted to change full seq. ingition, but the same problem stopped me. I took out the ECU, tabletested many combinations, and figured out this problem occures only if N-1 multitooth crank AND want to camsync it. If changed to coil-type crank trigger, it worked perfectly, even with camsync. It seems (after the table-tests) that every one full revolution of crankshaft "resets" something. That's why you've got 3 sparks, and I've had 2 ( 4 cyl ). After the revolution with sparks, comes the rev. without sparks, and starts over again.

I tested various parameters. If ignchmax = 3 (for my 4 cylinder), then 03 and 02 will fire only. If ignchmax set to 7 then 07 and 06 fired and starts over again.

So my engine still is a "cheater waste" :(

Use 1.0.45 and configure primary_trigger=10, experimenting with other values will not work for camsync, it's only a waste of time. I recommend to ask, don't forget to include your mcd and mct dump.

mcd

mcdmct together

Hello>
primep=00
primep_temp_scaling=00
cwl=32
cwh=0A
cranking_thres=02
awev=00
awev_temp_scaling=00
awec=00
warmup_clt_range[0]=00
warmup_clt_range[1]=12
warmup_clt_range[2]=26
warmup_clt_range[3]=3A
warmup_clt_range[4]=50
warmup_clt_range[5]=64
warmup_clt_range[6]=78
warmup_clt_range[7]=8C
warmup_clt_range[8]=AA
warmup_clt_range[9]=C8
warmup_clt[0]=B4
warmup_clt[1]=AC
warmup_clt[2]=A0
warmup_clt[3]=90
warmup_clt[4]=87
warmup_clt[5]=83
warmup_clt[6]=7F
warmup_clt[7]=71
warmup_clt[8]=6B
warmup_clt[9]=64
warmup_rpm_scale=BF
req_fuel=21
divider=01
alternate=14
injopen=00
battfac=13
kpafac=CD
kpaoffs=8E
injocfuel=0D
injrampup_battfac=FF
injpwm=FF
injpwmt=FF
injpwm6=0A
rpmk[0]=09
rpmk[1]=60
tpsdot_kpadot_conf=00
tpsdotrate[0]=24
tpsdotrate[1]=3D
tpsdotrate[2]=55
tpsdotrate[3]=82
tpsaq[0]=0D
tpsaq[1]=16
tpsaq[2]=20
tpsaq[3]=2D
als_cut_mintps=73
tpsasync=02
acmult=C8
tpsacold=96
launch_enrich=00
launch_retard=1C
overrun_fuelcut=46
overrun_fuelresume=41
rev_limit=54
airden_ignore=00
config11=41
config12=40
config13=02
batt_cal=BD
fastidle=00
als_max_cut=65
dbaro=0C
tps_low=0E
tps_high=A3
fan_temp=5F
fan_hyst=05
fan_channel=FF
iac_step_seq=C9
iac_conf=00
iac_max_steps=E0
iac_tps_thres=54
iac_cold_idle_temp=87
iac_warm_idle_temp=CF
iac_cold_rpm=19
iac_warm_rpm=10
iac_cold_start_pos=E2
iac_warm_start_pos=B0
iac_afterstart_rpm=1F
iac_afterstart_duration=64
iac_speed=05
iac_kp=14
iac_ki=0F
iac_kd=14
launch_rpm=34
iac_integral_limit_dec=05
iac_integral_limit_inc=78
iac_integral_deadband=0A
iac_deadband=05
als_cut_maxtps=A6
iac_overclose_interval=FF
iac_ref_pos[0]=36
iac_ref_pos[1]=33
iac_ref_pos[2]=33
iac_ref_pos[3]=33
iac_ref_pos[4]=30
iac_ref_pos[5]=30
iac_ref_pos[6]=2E
iac_ref_pos[7]=2E
iac_ref_pos[8]=2E
iac_ref_pos[9]=2B
iac_sol_channel=7F
iac_ign_slope=20
softrpm_range=12
iac_ign_advance_limit=08
iac_ign_retard_limit=08
iac_ign_threshold=08
ego_conf=06
ego_lag=01
ego_coolant=B4
ego_maxtps=E6
ego_maxmap=FF
ego_minrpm=06
ego_maxrpm=FF
ego_warmup=3C
ego_lean_limit=03
ego_rich_limit=03
ego_pid_kp=28
als_enrich=1A
ego_delta=1A
ego_target=19
ego_pid_window=FF
wbo2_warmup_ramp=C0
als_react_tps=00
wbo2_abs_limit=F5
wbo2_limit_maxt=A0
wbo2_fallback=60
wbo2_retry_t=06
wbo2_edgetime_corr=BA
wbo2_edgetime_min=50
wbo2_ri_target=9A
wbo2_nernstdc_target=89
wbo2_pump_pw_zero=64
wbo2_calibration=D9
wbo2_heater_pid_kp=46
wbo2_heater_pid_ki=10
wbo2_heater_pid_kd=1A
wbo2_heater_pid_ilimit=80
wbo2_pump_pid_kp=15
wbo2_pump_pid_ki=37
wbo2_pump_pid_kd=00
wbo2_pump_pid_ilimit=FF
wbo2_ri_confidence_scale=80
knock_conf=01
knock_sampling_window=FF
knock1_frequency=29
knock1_gain=FF
knock1_integrator=FF
knock2_frequency=29
knock2_gain=FF
knock2_integrator=FF
knock_threshold=FF
knock_noise_scale=FF
knock_max_retard=00
knock_default_retard=00
knock_retard_step=00
knock_retard_delay=00
knock_advance_step=00
knock_advance_delay=00
knock_minrpm=FF
knock_maxrpm=FF
ve_learn_coolant=D8
ve_learn_max_power=FF
ve_learn_rpm_scale=1E
ve_learn_kpa_scale=1E
ve_learn_ego_scale=43
ve_learn_min_weight=4D
ve_learn_speed=FF
ve_learn_limit=33
ve_learn_conf=00
lcd_c0=FE
lcd_delay=FF
lcd_backlight=FF
kpa_conf=22
ign_balance=64
als_retard_mintps=99
als_retard_maxtps=CC
lcd_default_view=00
primary_trigger=D0
secondary_trigger=10
tooth_wheel=0E
trigger_tooth=02
another_trigger_tooth=06
crank_minper=00
tooth_wheel_twidth1=00
tooth_wheel_twidth2=00
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=00
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=00
reset_engphase_after=1E
ign_tdcdelay=8C
ign_dwell14=2F
ign_dwell6=43
ign_crank_advance=28
ign_out=70
ignchmax=04
engine_off_delay=0F
pump_on_mintime=0B
fuelpump_channel=5F
inj_stage2_rate=FF
inj_stage2_start_tps=FF
inj_stage2_start_map=FF
als_deact_rpm=1E
als_deact_time=00
als_deact_egt=00
als_retard=F0
als_rev_limit=FF
misc1out_minrpm=00
misc1out_maxrpm=FF
misc1out_mintps=00
misc1out_maxtps=FF
misc1out_minmap=00
misc1out_maxmap=FF
misc1out_channel=7F
misc2out_minrpm=FF
misc2out_maxrpm=FF
misc2out_mintps=00
misc2out_maxtps=FF
misc2out_minmap=00
misc2out_maxmap=FF
misc2out_channel=6F
act_wot_rpm=FF
act_wot_channel=FF
act_rpm_rpm=48
act_rpm_channel=60
egt1_cal=4C
als_tks_channel=FF
boost_conf=59
boost_targetoffs=1E
boost_minpressure=3C
boost_pid_kp=B4
boost_pid_ki=46
boost_pid_kd=23
boost_pid_ilimit=4B
boost_channel=70
water_pump_temp=00
hybrid_rpm_a=00
hybrid_rpm_m=00
water_pump_hyst=00
water_pump_channel=FF
toothrel_normal=00
toothrel_missing=00
fuelcut_min_kpa=0A
fuelcut_max_kpa=FF
tach_channel=FF
tach_div=FF
shiftcut_conf=00
shiftcut_channel=00
shiftcut_time=3F
softrpm_rpm=52
j[0]=3380 3480 3780 3880 3980 3C80 3D80 3D80 3D80 3D80 3C80 3980
j[1]=3780 3780 3C80 3B80 3D80 4080 4080 4480 4480 4480 4480 4680
j[2]=3A80 3A80 4280 4280 4280 4680 4780 4B80 4B80 4A80 4A80 4A80
j[3]=5280 5480 5380 4F80 4F80 4F80 5280 5480 5280 5280 5280 5080
j[4]=5E80 5D80 5D80 5C80 5980 5980 5B80 5C80 5A80 5B80 5A80 5980
j[5]=6680 6680 6680 6380 6380 6780 6780 6780 6980 6980 6880 6580
j[6]=7080 6F80 7080 7080 7080 7380 7180 7280 7280 7180 7280 7080
j[7]=7D80 7C80 7C80 7C80 7980 7980 7A80 7980 7880 7780 7880 7880
j[8]=8080 8080 8180 8280 8280 8280 8280 8280 8280 8280 8280 8280
j[9]=8580 8580 8380 8580 8A80 8A80 8A80 8880 8880 8880 8880 8880
j[A]=8780 8780 8780 8480 8C80 8C80 8C80 8A80 8A80 8A80 8A80 8A80
j[B]=8B80 8B80 8B80 8980 8C80 8E80 8E80 8C80 8C80 8C80 8C80 8C80
l[0]=47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47
l[1]=47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47 47
l[2]=48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48
l[3]=48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48
l[4]=48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48 48
l[5]=48 43 43 43 43 43 43 43 43 43 43 43
l[6]=5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C
l[7]=5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C 5C
l[8]=5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E 5E
l[9]=63 63 63 63 63 63 63 63 63 63 63 63
l[A]=70 70 6D 6D 6D 70 6D 6D 70 6D 70 70
l[B]=7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 7E 87 87 87 7E 7E 7E
n[0]=38 38 6C 89 9D A4 A7 A9 AB AB AB AC
n[1]=38 38 69 85 97 9F A3 A5 A8 A8 A9 A9
n[2]=38 38 65 7F 93 9B A1 A1 A4 A4 A8 A8
n[3]=40 3F 60 79 90 99 9E A0 A1 A2 A5 A6
n[4]=40 3E 63 7D 8F 98 9E 9E 9E 9E A1 A2
n[5]=3C 45 5E 75 86 8F 93 93 95 97 99 9A
n[6]=32 39 54 6A 77 7E 86 89 8C 8D 90 92
n[7]=22 21 3A 57 6B 7A 7F 84 88 8B 8E 8E
n[8]=1D 1D 2E 45 64 70 78 7C 80 84 88 88
n[9]=1B 1B 29 3A 60 70 78 78 7C 80 84 84
n[A]=1A 1A 25 37 4C 5C 60 64 68 6C 70 74
n[B]=14 14 14 19 20 27 2D 31 36 39 3B 3E
k[0]=0A 14 1E 28 32 43 53 64 75 85 9B A7
r[0]=07 0C 0F 14 1E 28 32 37 41 46 4B 55
h[0]=04 10 08 02 01 00 40 80
h[1]=00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
h[2]=01 00 02 04 03 07 07 07
b[0]=7D 82 82 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96 96
t[0]=FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF

Overlapping dwell

New firmware

Note that 1.0.59 release only supports 15-1 multitooth.

1.0.60 supports N-1 and N-2, but untested, and for 15-1 there is no known advantage compared to 1.0.59

This engine is running well with 1.0.59 overlapping dwell firmware, idles and drives around, and is powerful. ALS works too, though max retard seems to be limiting it's usefullness (will be fixed soon)

The 15-1 wheel is now hollowed on lathe and fixed strongly to the crank (this will prevent the earlier accident of coming off from the flywheel and flying away with some spectacular fireworks under the car at a 402m dragrace).

Unfortunately engine rev-limits itself at 7900..8000 RPM, but this is certainly NOT caused by the limited dwell (since dwell is not limited with this firmware even at high-RPM). Most likely the orig cylinder head cannot actuate the valves properly at too high RPM.


Firing order is 1,2,4,5,3

Special settings needed for the reftooth for each cyl (yes, odd-fire V6 would be possible as well).

Other settings:


How to upload h[1] - h[1] was not used before 2006-Sept

MegaTune

Alternatively via TerminalProgram

[small conflet and mtt files to upload] of the very few changes. These were made with make_conf.pl and make_tables.pl (but can also be made with a modified generate_config.bat)