InputTrigger/HondaFTwentyTrigger (2015-06-09 11:21:27)

Honda F20 engine

Note:

F20C 2005 and up is same trigger wheel as K20X


All this family is supported by VEMS v3 ECU firmware including camshaft-angle-measurement and control (even on those engines where not continuously variable from the factory).

Configlets for this engine are available in VT -> primary trigger -> "4cyl_12+extra_Honda_F20_Camsync"

honda_f20c_early_spark_fast.png


=== OLD - ==

New testing with 1.1.98.

Crank seims to be much better, but i couldn't test 100%

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011-12-03-15.07.41.triggerlog

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011-12-03-15.08.18.triggerlog

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011-12-03-15.11.19.triggerlog

but somethings is very wrong with outputs(vtec and cam angle control).

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011.12.03-15.29.44.vemslog 1.1.98

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011.12.03-15.33.40.vemslog 1.1.98

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/1.1.98/v3.3_u003945-2011.12.03-15.46.45.vemslog 1.1.96

So in 1.1.98 cam is stuck near 70deg and in 1.1.96 works good.

Also vtec is hard to start 100%(like miscoutput gives pwm signal not ON/OFF). See in log(1.1.98, tim 15.33.40) like mixture is very rich. Also notice that after 8300rpm like 80% VTEC is enabled.

Tried control vtec with misc and N2O, also with bad resoults.

Swapped back to 1.1.96 and cam control and vtec again works good.

firmware is v3_firmware_1.1.98_evosync.zip

---

Maybee problem is that 1.1.98 has two measure at tooth_cnt.

Before for cam settings was 5, now setttings was 6 and 0. 0 was for that cam which has cam control, so 150deg wrong settings.

Honda F20

From the S2000, this is now a popular engine conversion into older cars and Lotus 7 replicas as it is an RWD engine.

P1017888.jpg

There are 12 equally spaced teeth 30 degrees apart, with an additional tooth positioned ~20degrees after one (~10degrees before the next).

The engine turns clockwise (apparently this is the only Honda VTEC engine that does) so the trigger pattern is:

..., 30, 30, 10, 20, 30, 30, ...

Suggesting that this trigger cannot be used with InputTrigger/ShortGapTrigger (See below). Missing tooth with advanced filtering, setting missing tooth threshold between 1.5 (30/20) and 2.0 (20/10) could work, if it starts with 1.75 it will run too (the wildest relative acceleration happens during cranking, because of the low RPM).

Maybe the trigger could be turned over and refitted which would give the pattern: ..., 30, 30, 20, 10, 30, 30, ...

Now the proper 30, 30, 10,20, 30 ... setup is implemented (along with any similar "extrapulse setup"), also with camsync in 1.1.96. Now under testing.


did you try with missing tooth setup

If gaps are 30,10,20,30 than a variation of InputTrigger/ShortGapTrigger that is not yet supported, I think (because it would also require shortgap at the next event to be fired, 180 degrees later in a 4cyl)


TODO: Configlets should be made for:

In factory applications the missing tooth wheels are better choices (and actually mostly used: better timing and diagnostics can be achieved without stricter wheel-precision requirement), but for home-made setups the low toothcount (often bolts) are usually appealing.


Bench test results

'Test on real car

Car is honda type R ep3, 2.0 vtec(also vvti) k20a2 engine.

Vems is connected as pigyback, so stock ecu manage the engine.

Primary trigger:12+1(extra pulse)

Sec: exhaust cam(4+1)

Log and trigger log:

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/ExhaustCamonCamSynckuglaCivicTypeR-3945.zip

Rpms are good and stable(tested till 8000rpm) only at cranking rpms aren't 100% stable

And for TDC settings are:

TDC after (60deg, not 100% sure, but error is max +-5deg)

first trigger tooth:3

but firing 3. cylinder, not first

Then i connect intake cam to secondary trigger:

log:

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/IntakeCamOnCamSynckuglaCivicTypeR-3945.zip

It's clear form logs that intake cams move 30deg max with stock ecu.

Connect both cam sensors to vems(sec and third input) for best result (see sectrig and thirdtrig position in log).

Primary trigger: crank 12+extra pulse

Secondary trigger: Exhaust(4+1) needed for cam sync(working well)

3th trigger: intake(4pulses), needed for campos for intake cam

trigger log of intake cam(for logging is connected to secondary trigger input)

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/IntakeCamOnCamSynckuglaCivicTypeR-3945.zip


update 15.8.2011

Car is now running on vems ecu(not mapped).

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/v3.3_u003945-2011.08.14-22.13.33.vemslog

first ignition coil is connected to vems pin 12, 2nd to 24, 3rd pin 35, 4th to pin 33.

Coils work with logiclevel output 0/5V with stock 510ohm series resistors.

And now tdc is 100% correct.

All three cam sensors are logged good.

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/v3.3_u003945-2011-08-14-21.57.33.triggerlog

Also for vvti control solenoid needs +12V(it's grounded to engine block). So i added P channel mosfet(irf 9540) with gate pulled to 12V with 10k and gate connected to p259 chip. And diode for protection.


Obsolete ?

In trigger log i can see that cams are moving, but in log i can't see that(or in vemstune).

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/14/camlog.png/

Log:

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/v3.3_u003945-2011.08.14-22.13.33.vemslog


Car is mapped on dyno, 242@8500rpm. Vtec and VTI are working.

Only start is sometimes hard, like after first successful ignition of mixture spark position is wrong. I'll add trigger logs latter.

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/v3.3_u003945-2011.08.31-20.13.57.vemslog


There are problems with start and missing spark.

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/v3.3_u003945-2011-09-26-18.57.34.triggerlog

See at 656ms(also there are 68cam signal, so should be 65+ spark event, but there are 53) , there aren't spark events. So when car start to catching(fast rpm change) vems lost sync.

Here is config:

http://www.vems.hu/files/DamirMuha/Honda12Extra/configk20a2.vemscfg

Cranking issue