Using Vemstune 1.3.1 ,VEMS 3.6 (written on the order receipt and mainboard) but Vemstune recognise it like v3.3 (firmware and bootloader is same for all, so that is OK), firmware 1.2.2.
Engine code: S50B32
- 6 cylinder in line
- Infinite variable camshaft angle on both intake and exhaust(VANOS)
- displacement (cm3): 3201
- Stock pistons&rods , 3.5mm Cometic Headgasket and ARP hardware
- Coil on plugs and full sequential
- Stock cams
- Precision Turbo 6262turbo
- 3 vr sensors
- Crank 60-2 = primtrig
- Exhaust 6+1 Sectrig !
- Intake 6 Third trig !
- Dual Vanos Enabled
Started the engine in stock form, nothing changed, i only attached my ecu adapter socket to the car's original ecu socket.
I wanted , for the start to verify vanos functionality.
I have problems in getting a stable secondary and third trigger, also, secondary and third triggers tries to follow target cam advance maps, but not with very good success. I have manually put cams in max advance and retard position , and took note of them, after that i have made cam target maps.I have attached leds to solenoid outputs, and they are very unstable, even if in close proximity of cam target. I suspect an unstable trigger signals.
I attach two trigger logs, one only cranking and one at idle, a config file, and a log.
In the Vemslog you will see also, that around 1800-2000 rpm, i have very nasty fuelcut, i don't know the cause.
- You´ve configured fuelcut at 2000rpm, resume at 1900rpm and TPS value for Idle Treshold to 3%, thats why fuel is cut. Put idle treshold to 1% and this problem is gone.
Use higher baudrate, like 115200 in triggerlog to raise the max RPM where it can capture all pulses
- even then it is limited to about 3-4000 pulses / second, so it won't capture all at high RPM: the exact RPM depends on trigger pattern
- This is a limitation of the serial baudrate (but it's perfect for starting problems and mostly also for idle if used with the right settings - hopefully your serialport handles 115200 baud, most serialport handles it OK).
- was apparently captured in 19200 baud (where max RPM is ~600 with a 60-2 wheel)
- in 115200 baud max RPM is several times higher
I am not very sure about VR sensors polarity, i have tried everything, and i do not have a oscilloscope to verify them.
- oscilloscope scopeshot would be highly preferrably (a borrowed scope would save a lot of time) but at least try to "PULL-AWAY METAL metal from the sensor" if possible
- measured polarity should be MINUS (DVM-DC voltage 200mV mode, black probe is the ground) normally with longgap-shorttooth wheel (the gap is longer than the tooth, or at the missing tooth the gap is enlarged)
- measured polarity should be PLUS for an inside-out longtooth-shortgap wheel (where the tooth is longer than the gap; or at the missing tooth the tooth is enlarged, not the gap as normally) - this is less common but exists
- For all 3 sensors !
Also a have seen in a DTA wiring instructions, that the Crank and exhaust cam (secondary trigger for vems) has the same polarity, but the intake cam sensor (third trigger) has inverse polarity. Can anyone confirm me that?
- When Marcell started to inspect an S50B32 (with which the main problem later turned out to be a torn crankwheel dampener resulting in trigger error and power-cut around 6800 RPM) only one of the intake or exhaust had to be inverted (but the number of previous inversions applied by the installer since the factory setup was unknown).
- to avoid any uncertainty, polarity of all 3 VR sensors should be verified individually
- Both sensors show MINUS when pulling away wrench if BLack-positive, Yellow-Negative. This is good for the exhaust cam, which has teeth (longgap-shortteeth). But the intake camwheel is different !
- the exhaust cam side has the 6+1 pattern and it has teeths
- so for exhaust cam Yellow-GND, Black-signal
- the intake cam side 6 pattern BLack-GND, Yellow-signal because intake cam has 6 gaps, not teeth (longtooth-shortgap).
- when you verify, with a longtooth-shortgap wheel you are reading PLUS with the pull-away method (when connected with good polarity)
- I must use rising edge or falling edge for secondary trigger?
- with VR sensor always configure rising edge in software (falling edge only usefuly for HALL).
- explanation: The VR chip lm1815 senses the falling edge of the incoming signal and generates a rising edge for the processor. Maybe confusing, but that's how it works
- There is somwhere good info about the settings for the knock sensing, for my firmware? I have connected two sensors, bosch with 2 wires. Connected them to pin 1 and 2 of the EC18, like shown on the note when i bought the Vems. I have ordered it with dual channel knock. The ground pin 17 is connected to sensors ground. In the settings, knock sampling, i have put KNOCK CHAN = 255 , winstart=12, winlenght= 60 , for the first channel - frequency to 6.64, gain=2, ITC=240, same for the second channel. I have tred to tap the sensors with a hammer with non running engine, and watched KNOCK DIFF gauge, nothing happens, i have tried also different settings, but no sign of life . I wil need some help in this matter.
Firing order - starting offset set according to sectrig position
I run fully sequential, spark and fuel: cannot be sure if the right injector fires on the right cylinder at a given firing event (actually, inj is best to close about 430 BTDC, so 400 crankdeg before spark; only matters for low-power though, eg. idle and cruise).
- When connected all my coils from 1 to 6 to the spark outputs A to F (sure? spark outputs are not labelled A..F) '''(on the sheet i received, the spark channels are SPARK A, SPARK B, etc etc.) respectively.
- In the Ignition Outputs dialog i saw that the ignition order is 054321 , but connecting my coils in that order following offcourse the ignition order of the engine, the engine has not started, but
- after shifting 3times up the order, the engine started, so engine cyl1 fires at the number 3 output - that is absolutely normal, it just depends on of sectrigpulse postion relative to cyl1 TDC
- Which injector output number will fire the same time with the related ignition output?
- The ignition sequense traverses up (see arrow) in ~2012 VemsTune dialog, so your "circle" starts with for example cyl6 at the topmost ignout entry (correct here if wrong)
- the injection (injector outputs as shown in VT dialog) sequence hasn't been changed yet as of 2013-01-22 (traverses up as traditionally) so place cyl6 injout to the bottom entry.
- note: in VemsTune newer than 2012-01-23 is more intuitive: the injector sequence traverses down also (and shown with arrow), there the same cylX should be at the very bottom as in the ignition order. (therefore the whole sequence appears same in inj and ign, eg. from top to bottom cyl 624153 which is exact same circle as 153624 just with the starting point adjusted according to a typical sectrig position.)
In short, if ign (traversed down) topmost is cyl6, inj (traversed up) bottom entry should be cyl6.
- note: as a transient state, a bit awkward, this is intuitive in new VemsTune from 2013-01-23)
- If this is not clear, fill in details about your setup below.
Firing order 153624
- cyl1 ign.. inj..
- cyl5 ign.. inj..
- cyl3 ign.. inj..
- cyl6 ign.. inj..
- cyl2 ign.. inj..
- cyl4 ign.. inj..
Fill in table (ignoutputnum and/or ec36/pin..).
- Rotate above table so the topmost matches your "ign output" dialog.
Preferrably also publish your running config => than we can review injection settings to match.
Ok, i understood about injection timing. Thanks
There is someway that can i get support on knock settings? I have asked above and gave some details about it.
- Hi. Do not spend time on knock at this moment. There will come a upgrade later this year but for now it do not work.
Ok, thanks for the help.
Yesterday i have done some dyno pulls, and we arrived at 500hp from 5000rpm to 8000rpm, and 590Nm torque at around 5500 rpm. at 0.8 bar. At 0.7 bar it has 475hp .
I will post some videos.
Thanks for the support, i wait for news about the knock sensing feature update, because my client was a little disapointed when i told him that knock sensing will not be functional.
I need to know if there are news about the knock sensing feature.
Also, i have bought a bluetooth dongle from you to use it with Vems Display, i have made all the settings right, it finds the bluetooth, paired it, but Vems Display only shows me "Connecting", and does nothing else, no error messages, nothing.
There is some Help thread that i can follow in this matter?
- make sure to be able to connect with vemstune and USB-serial
- try vemstune with the BT-serial. Make sure that works first (measure 5V supply, and supply current if it does not).
- bluetooth and Android does work for many, after enabling BT, without special tricks. Of course there can be several possible reasons for no-connect: if windows can connect via same BT module, but the android cannot, then the BT-serial driver in the specific Android version can be a suspect. Or it was not enabled, or perhaps the pin-code was not entered for it ?
- if there is some telephone-application installed that hijacks the BT-serial module (opens the port and tries to send some messages that of course v3 does not understand), that can be a problem
- much much more information is needed, go through the above steps, and don't forget to take note of versions.
There is another method to get help a little faster, than this wiki? It's a little frustrating, to buy things, with little or no clear instructions, and without support for them. I don't understand, why do you have knock sensing option for your ECU but it does not work, and also this bluetooth dongle, and software. Maybe i am mistaken, and i apologise in advance if i have mistaken, but it's not normal to get support in such a long time, or not at all. I have my client on my head, saying "Why have i payed this money for it, and does not work?"