I would like to install a Genboard v3.3 to the following car:
Audi S2 coupe quattro 2.2 5 cyl 20v 3B
This 5cyl needs InputTrigger/AudiTrigger see "Configuration" info, your config does not comply !
- see GenBoard/UnderDevelopment/FirmwareChanges
- firmware 1.0.29 used
- MegaTune r028 (r027 should work too).
TODO needed for debug
- TerminalProgram
- disconnect megatune
- brayterm 9600,8n1 connect (COM1 or whatever)
- Man
- mll - sends LCD content, just to test if we are in "Man" menu
- start log
- mcd - so log contains config
- mct - so log contains tables
- mdd0c
- cranking (4..5 sec)
- stop log
- upload log to internet
- bye (this changes mode to MegaTune binary protocol; a reboot does the same)
- disconnect from Brayterm
- connect MegaTune
- (Man, mcd, mct, mdd0c, mdd04, mdd00), start log/ stop log / send file (mtt file)
- DONE: publish mcd, mct dump
- TODO: describe all trigger connections, including shield and pullup
- photo of cable
- check against InputTrigger/AudiTrigger and InputTrigger/AudiTrigger/TestLM
While the trigger is special, the other sensors should be no problem at all.
My V3.3 include:
- Primary trigger VR
- secondary_trigger: auditrigger
- MAP connection: 400kPa onboard
- LCD an PS2
- 2 Knock and EGT
- ignition driver: 6+2
The car use the absolutely factory sensors and accessory but the air filter's house was removed.
I want to make a street racing car from above.
Project to follow:
- samco turbo hoses
- tubular turbo exhaust manifold
- bigger turbo than original
- erl water injection
- engine internal modification /pistons,conrods/
My plans:
- use a factory 55 pins Motronic male connector to EC18 and EC36 and make a flying cable set + WBO2,egt custom made wirings to engine.
- Anti lag system
- Launch control
- Boost control solenoid
- Distributor based ignition
- Sequential injection for 5 cyl '14.5 ohm'
- 2 knock sensors, but I think use 1 knock sensor.
- Primary trigger VR 135 tooth crankwheel (no missing tooth)
- Secondary tr. HALL trig 1 window/720° camtooth. Overlaps VR.
- Secondary tr. VR trig 1/360° cranktooth
- factory CLT
- factory IAT
- factory TPS
- 1xWBO2
- 1xEGT
- LCD
Please check my planned pinout and correct it if necessary.
EC36
1 TPS sign.
2-IAT 450-650 ohm/in 20°C
3- fast-idle small solenoid or relay (or any low-current output, such as shiftlight). EC36pin3 is a 350mA output, see GenBoard/Manual/DigitalOut/Table. You might want to use the powerful injector outputs first (don't forget to adjust h[0]=.. entries) and use the low-current outputs if you run out of injector outputs. Care is needed to not overload outputs.
4-
5-GND5
6-
7-Injector1 14.5 ohm/in 20°C
8-Injector3
9-Injector5
10-
11-
12-
13-Sec.trig HALL 1 window camtooth
14-CLT 2.1-2.9kohm/in 20°C
15-TODO: remove Fuel pump relay from here
16-
17-TODO: move fuel pump relay to here
18-BOOST solenoid
19-Injector2
20-Injector4
21-GND5
22-GND5
23-Inj.flyback injector common (+12V)
24-
25-Vbatt 15+
26-GND ecu and sign,knock
27-Primary trigger 135 cranktooth VR
28-5V to sensors /to TPS maybe ????
29-
30-
31-
32-GND5
33-
34-
35-ignition coil. Ign-Channel0 ( GenBoard/Manual/DigitalOut/Table )
36-
WebShop assembled controller description says channel3=EC36pin36 and channel5=EC36pin12 are logic-level drive. Useful for active coils that have the driver stage inside. For traditional dumb coil, you want to use one of the 6 power (non-logiclevel) ignition outputs. h[2]=.. (ignition sequence) must be adjusted for the chosen output in any case.
EC18
12-Knock1
3-
4-
5-
6-
7-WBO2 pump-
8-
9-WBO2 pump+
10-
11-
12-Sec trigger 1 Cranktooth VR. Robin said on phone earlier that he swapped crankhome VR (as he was supposed to), actually at the firewall connector (if I remember right). Robin, confirm here that it is the case indeed.
13-WBO2 nernst cell
14-Comm RS232 See WebShop, assembled controller
15-Comm RS232
16- 1-wire is a network connection. Not used (unless for [i-button]). A free connection (if you don't solder the DS2480B chip) - use for whatever you like.
17-
18-WBO2 heater-
DO NOT forget to read the warning of the provided resckue-kit paper, about GND5, flyback, and fuses.
Please link to the docs you're trying to use. See MegaTune page for (simple unzip) install.
The v3.3 has max232, so a standard RS232 port is needed. See GenBoard/Manual/CommHardware
If unsure about MegaTune setup / compatibility, in 9600,8n1 say \n
Man mll mcd mct bye
without spaces. mll prints LCD content of active page (even if no LCD connected), mcd and mct prints config and tables. bye (note: everything is case sensitive) goes back to MegaTune compatible mode. Since MegaTune is much simpler to use, you don't need to learn GenBoard/MenuSystem, but if you like:
But 1.0.19 will NOT work with the InputTrigger/AudiTrigger , since it is a new development.
megaloq viewer:
http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=LogAnalysis
you can also collect some infos from:
http://www.msefi.com/index.php
Trigger signal debugging
The from genboard I can see the following signals:
- 135 cranktoots on 0.8V DC with 1.9V AC-peak to peak about 400Hz,40mV noise on cranking
- 1 teet crankhome VR on 0.8V DC with 2V AC-peak to peak about 40mv noise on cranking
- hall 1camsign startpoint 4.7V neg pulse about 10msec on cranking
The signals look suitable. The problem was boiled p259 chip, likely operated with missing GND or GND5.
Testing on the bench
- the board was sent to Budapest to be tested on the bench
- modifications done:
- C103 was replaced (to 1nF)
- R182 was shorted
- 43k pullup to 5V was installed on crankhome-VR input. Should be enough without external pullup.
- ALS activation switch input (SDA) was connected to EC18pin16. Note that only AVR internal pullup is enabled, an external 4k7 resistor connected in place of the ALS switch pulled down 4.8V down to 0.57V). Beware that this is unprotected input. Anything above 5V or under 0V will kill the AVR.
- we found that p259 was fried. Very likely that GND or GND5 was not
- this prevented trigger detection (broken p259 pulled down internal supply that powered the LM1815) and the p259 outputs (fuel-pump relay was controlled from this
- p259 was removed, than (after some testing, and found other functions to be OK,) a new chip was installed
- tested with c270_670.wav fed into EC36pin27 (primary) and EC18pin12 (secondary channel. It works nice.
- HALL input (EC36pin12) was tested this way: first left open, than pulled continuoisly to GND (in normal operation, pulled to GND once every 2nd crankrot, hard to test with 2 channel soundcard, but this simpler test also tests the input perfectly). Found an interesting thing: when I ground HALL continuously, firing (ign/inj) stops as it should, but RPM keeps updating, which is confusing. Well, this was 1.0.29 firmware 1.0.30.
- 1.0.29 didn't increase wheel-error for secondary trigger problem (like 1.0.30 does). mdd0c auditrigger log works well though.
- upgraded to 1.0.30 compiled with ALS (global.h is the same, but air and clt temp patched to guessed curves: vems_airXfactor_2400_287_cltfactor_2400_287.hex)
Suggestions:
- move fuel-pump control to a free injector output (other input of the relay is connected to injector-common +12V )
- proposed: EC36pin17 (see GenBoard/Manual/DigitalOut/Table):
- last element of h[0] becomes 80 (decimal 128): h[0]=08 02 01 04 10 00 00 80
- after setting h[0] last element, test with mdhf0 and mdh70
- after testing the above way, set fuelpump_channel=70
I was changed the config and fuel pump out, invert crankhome signal,but the logging for rpm signal very confusing.Sure the engine did not starting.
Log file and the last config under http://www.vems.hu/files/Robin/
I use the original 1 audi coil and distributor,wich setup can I use?Dummy or edis,Chanel logic or no?
The log seems good:
(formatted with ./auditrigger_logformatter 27 < /tmp/Robin/terminal.log )\n
x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x _ x P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 _ 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 _ 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 _ 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 _ 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 P b5 b4 b3 b2 b1 b0 af ae ad ac ab aa a9 a8 a7 a6 a5 a4 a3 a2 a1 a0 9f 9e 9d 9c 9b 9a 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8f 8e 8d 8c 8b 8a 89 88 87 86
Check the W.. (wheel_error counter) on LCD page 1 (mlp01).
Also, check your fuel settings, TPS, overrun fuelcut, fuelcut_min_kpa, etc..
- wheel error: not increasing
- matching (2006-02-03) [terminal log file]
- Injector signal O.K.
- RPM signal good (appr 178 RPM at cranking)
- But NO IGNITION SIGNAL!
- ignition: dummy setting
- I checked the ignition signals on the drive00 (important! write econoseal pin number, as we talked on phone!) with scope, cont. 0V.no changes.
- (assuming you measured on the EC36-xx pin matching your h[2] ignition sequence), this means that whatever you connect to the ignition output, does not pull it up. The drive00 cannot pull the signal up, it's the task of the ignition transformer or the coil. Use drive03 (or drive05) that is logiclevel (since you ordered 6+2 ignition configuration from WebShop.
- I used a 1k pullup to 12V, and the signal was cont.4v, but the signal on the trigger fall to 0V (and should have gone from 0V to 4V at the time of spark!).
- It is not good because the original Audi require a cont.0V on ignition ON and at cranking the trigger rising to 4V about 30ms intervals.
- confirm that the audi factory module charges to coil when signal is high, and fires on the falling edge (like most IgnitionPage/TransformerWithAmplifier)
- I changed the setting to invert polarity, but no signals this way either.
Your triggerlog seems good:\n
86 85 84 83 82 0A 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 0A 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC AB AA A9 A8 A7 A6 A5 A4 A3 A2 A1 A0 9F 9E 9D 9C 9B 9A 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 92 91 90 8F 8E 8D 8C 8B 8A 89 88 87 86 85 84 83 82 0A 81 50 B5 B4 B3 B2 B1 B0 AF AE AD AC
- so don't touch the input-trigger side because it will only get worse. The problem is at the output side (likely an incompatibility with the audi amplifier, maybe the audi amplifier has a too strong pulldown or something)
- Try to use drive03 (logiclevel output), and don't invert the signal
- apparently done (he told this on phone): no luck
- Try to use a normal ignition transformer and drive00. dummy ignition, non-inverting mode. Don't forget the 10A fuse.
- Please confirm that you tried this. Document the output connection you used and update your config so it can be verified.
- Get back to the audi ignition module when the car runs OK on the amplifierless ignition transformer.
- earlier it seemed that "audi ignition module" was for the ignition transformer with amplifier inside (not amplifierless) - you even used the logiclevel drive03 to match this.
I was check the system last and I'm depressed.
- I charged the battery fully, the cranking's rpm about was 230.
- The wheel error rising this way.
- be sure to upload the mdd0c terminal log (preferrably binary, not hex) taken during this condition. Your latest published log is from Feb 3 that didn't show the wheel error!
- With the original motronic ecu I saw 13ms long injection duration and 225ms interval exactly at cranking for each cylinder.The injections was very incomplete with the vems.
- I was try the traditional coil on the EC36pin35 and I see the sparks.Was 1-2 sparks fired for about 10 crankings.The orig. motronic was 24ms long 4v rising trigger and 90ms interval exactly at cranking for distribution use.
I think vems not suitable for correct and safe uses for audi trigger configurations.It is not working yet. I don't know Miska how use this but it is very interesting.
comments: It is working and safe to use if everything is wired up properly, proven on at least 3 cars so far. Did you remember to swap polarity of the sectrig VR sensor? Couldn't see anything about that on this page. //Emil
- Marcell
- I'm sorry but I'm think finished the audi trigger project and I will be changed the distribution's inner a 5 windows hall trigger.
- it's proven by independent installers that auditrigger configuration works. Since you apparently (unfortunately not obvious from this page, but looks likely from your info provided on phone) have output-side (ignition transformer) problem so changing the trigger is unlikely to solve your problem.
Did not have only the ignition problem but I have the injection
absolutely bad.
The output stage is right but I don't have any time write to the internet all the time.
I made all connections and instructions that I read from Miska's pages.
Which type of ignition coil use Miska?
- How can I change the primary trigger from VR to Hall in simply.
- you need to open the box for this (removing the endplate might be enough depending on configuration). See GenBoard/Manual/InputTriggerHardWare. (basically remove a jumper (soldered blob) and solder another (both on the top side of the PCB, near the LM1815 chip,)
It's a good idea for you to start to ask for help in a sufficient way:
- document problem with related published logs (mdd0c and MegaTune logs. This way you'd have completed the project weeks ago). Phonecall without these is useless, a waste of time
Other hints to try:
- your internal crankhome-VR pullup (to 5V) is 43k (Ohm), that is weaker than the other successfull installs (because it's easy to make it stronger with external pullup, but not to make it weaker!)
- try an external 20..47k pullup
- try to change to the 1.0.30 non-ALS firmware (http://www.vems.hu/files/Firmware/ )
- the ALS firmware you are using requires extra attention during configuration (eg. can cut spark according to configured conditions you might not be aware of yet). You can switch back to an ALS enabled firmware later.
- document your ground connections
- and flyback
- and fuses
- upload uptodate mdd0c logs. This is very important. Especially when you have wheel errors. (I've told you this several times. Noone will be able to help without this)
- also take logs (and upload) with MegaTune (this cannot be made at the same time as mdd0c so it needs to be a different starting attempt). This xls file (zip for upload) is very useful to verify that no unintentional fuelcut is configured. Eg. if you press the TPS > 65% (or so) during cranking, flood-clear mode will be activated (fuel pulsewidth=0). This would show up in the log.