MembersPage/NanassyPeter/AudiMissingTooth (2006-09-30 17:18:56)

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15 minus 1 trigger installed on Inline 5 Audi engine

Primary trigger is a 15-1 (yes, missing tooth!) crankwheel with [GT101 HALL sensor]

(which pulls down when it detects ferromagnetic material and leaves the signal high in the gap, as pulled up by the pullup resistor).

The falling edge (metal coming in) right after the missing tooth is 2 teeth+60degs = 48 crankdeg + 60 crankdeg = 108 crankdegrees BEFORE TOP DEAD CENTER Cyl1

Secondary trigger (HALL)

Pulse (falling or rising edge?) is set 10deg BEFORE primary trigger missing tooth.

trigger_tooth

trigger_tooth teeth used for trigger
00 0, 6, 12, 18, 24
01 1, 7, 13, 19, 25
02 2, 8, 14, 20, 26 BAD
03 3, 9, 15, 21, 27
04 4, 10, 16, 22, 28
05 5, 11, 17, 23, 29 BAD

As you see, 00 .. 01 or 03..04 are good values, 02 and 05 are BAD because tooth 14 and 29 simply does NOT exist. Because of the missing tooth, after 0..13 the toothcount jumps to 15 (tooth 14 is skipped), and after 15..28 it jumps to 0 (which would be same as 30, that is 2 cam rotations). Tooth 29 is skipped as well. This is the same situation as with a 6cyl 60-2, where another_trigger_tooth=14 (decimal 20) and 0..17 are valid for trigger tooth (18 or 19 is not, because 58 and 59 missing).


Camsync position

Main positions to take note of

that should be fine (always come between the cyl1 and cyl2 sparktime), and match the ignition sequence (read on).

mct

h[2]=01 00 02 04 03 .. .. ..

ign sequence:

ignch cyl cam position when TDC (crankdegree) crankdegree mod 360 = crank position when TDC (crankdegree) triggertooth TDC-tooth
ignch1 cyl2 144 144 21 24
ignch0 cyl1 0 0 15 18
ignch2 cyl3 576 216 9 12
ignch4 cyl5 432 72 3 6
ignch3 cyl4 288 288 27 0

This assumes that after camsync (chosen edge, eg. falling) comes, ignch1 =cyl2 fires. Than the igncount is resetted to ignchmax(=04), that is ignch3 (cyl4) to follow.

As you see, trigger_tooth=03 is good value for this.

.... the rest of h[2] ignition sequence is don't care, since ignchmax is 04 (5 cyl)


Result

Fires well on the bench, but something is not perfect on the real engine. It weakens at several points and lambda shows >10.0 values (O2 present, missfire ?).

What can be wrong ? The engine was running earlier with HALL trigger and distributor (though pistons were changed since than)

Also, the main (coolant radiator) fan got stuck (not fun), the motor might have burnt down (the wire insulation melted!). Not a 15 minute task to replace on this engine (but 2..3 hours).


Cars current status:

After replacing the stucked fan,we tried different settings on the engine (with the old config it was way too rich(but why?)

With 0.69 lambda all the way from 160kpa it was nor revving clearly (past 6K)and this is with dwell set to 3.

I leaned out to 0.77-0.8 then tried different dwell settings from 2.5 to 3.5,higher settings were much better.

We run then on Tököls DRAGBeach,we did a record (personal and this years category too) 11.18@196.In the finals we unfortunately lost out tranny again the gearchange fork broke again.So second place.Note that this is with shiftlight set at 6900,this engine needs to rev to 8500 to make its full power.

Looks like we reached the limits of the overlapping dwell,so i suggest a firmware mod for this ASAP.I also want to thank Mcells great support!


experimentation with bad primary_trigger config value

While we were lucky enough to get the engine running with totally misconfigured values (another_trigger_tooth=03 and reverse sequence ;-), it was running really poor and showed 2x higher RPM (than real).

firmware version= 1.0.45

Both mcd and mct are important to reproduce.

// amendment from MembersPage/AttilaSzucs

I've got the same problem. (firmware 38 and 45) My crank trigger is a 36-1, currently configured for cheating waste spark (4 COPs, dual ign). Few weeks ago I wanted to change full seq. ingition, but the same problem stopped me. I took out the ECU, tabletested many combinations, and figured out this problem occures only if N-1 multitooth crank AND want to camsync it. If changed to coil-type crank trigger, it worked perfectly, even with camsync. It seems (after the table-tests) that every one full revolution of crankshaft "resets" something. That's why you've got 3 sparks, and I've had 2 ( 4 cyl ). After the revolution with sparks, comes the rev. without sparks, and starts over again.

I tested various parameters. If ignchmax = 3 (for my 4 cylinder), then 03 and 02 will fire only. If ignchmax set to 7 then 07 and 06 fired and starts over again.

So my engine still is a "cheater waste" :(

Use 1.0.45 and configure primary_trigger=10, experimenting with other values will not work for camsync, it's only a waste of time. I recommend to ask, don't forget to include your mcd and mct dump.

mcd


Overlapping dwell

New firmware

Note that 1.0.59 release only supports 15-1 multitooth.

1.0.60 supports N-1 and N-2, but untested, and for 15-1 there is no known advantage compared to 1.0.59

[small conflet and mtt files to upload] of the very few changes, the h[1] is especially useful, since not available in old megatune. Simply upload both small mtt files via TerminalProgram.

Firing order is 1,2,4,5,3

Special settings needed for the reftooth for each cyl (yes, odd-fire V6 would be possible as well).

h[2]

the rest we know for sure:

If you replace vemsv3.ini from the http://www.vems.hu/files/TuningSoftware/MegaTune/vemsv3_ini_1.0.59_h1_included.zip than you can set h[1] from MegaTune