MembersPage/EricN/Trigger (2006-03-16 04:43:08)

Trigger related page for MembersPage/EricN

Board is a v3.2 serial number=110

RUNS AGAIN, NO DIFFERENT, WORKING ON PICS, HAVE A Q

THE ETERNAL QUEST CONTINUES

Ok, started over with the input trigger. Removed the previous mod which I copied from the v3.3 schematic and changed to the mod suggested below. Only thing now is my kids found my rescue kit and tore it apart. I have found most of it (I think) except alot of the capaciters are MIA, including the 220nF I need for C38.

STARTING OVER

Take photo of the current state (both sides). Try to use natural orientation and good focus.

Now that I have the RPM constant set right, the thing idles excellent (maybe ign idle control is working) but the trigger drops out way more than before (I can barely get it to start).

The above suggests that you select the adaptive hysteresis (LM1815pin5 left open), but all connection to C38 is broken: the resistor in series with C38 is not soldered properly (or at all)'''. If you need the modification for the irregular missing-tooth shape, remove the ugly throughole resistor and follow the updated instructions on

InputTrigger/RunOut

Back to the drawing board.

The above suggests that the LCD supply shorts to GND due to shaking. Maybe the backlight resistor ? Try without PS2 and LCD (only MegaTune) to find out if this is the problem.


BACK TO FRUSTRATED

Replaced all my ground cables, added some new ones. The best I can manage is about 1100rpm safely, much lower than that and it will for sure start acting up. Here is a [pic of my board].

Another issue that I think is related, if I hit any part of the engine with a tool I can make the ecu trigger. The closer I get to the distributer, the less force I need to do it. I need just to lightly touch the distributer with a tool and it fires away.

Incorrect RPM reading is caused by RPM constant misconfiguration: you used 3000 (the 4cyl value) instead of 2000 (the value for 6 cyl). See MembersPage/EricN/Config

Also drove the truck today just for the heck of it. The problem actually happens at almost any rpm, it just isnt as noticeable when you are free revving the motor, add a load though, all hell breaks loose.

MAYBE SOME HOPE!!!

Got bored/mad and went and bought a few feet of new 00 guage cable. I replaced 1 chassis ground wire untill it started raining BUT I did start the truck after. The trigger is almost perfect. Before, it would cut out at anything below 2800 rpm. Now, I can get it down to about 1000-1100 before it starts cutting out.

I have 3 more major cables I am just going to replace and ditch the battery cut out switch and try from there. I may adjust the vr sensor closer to the trigger wheel too.

Interesting thing now is, I can bang on the side of the distributer with the truck not running and I dont get any triggers, but I always get at least 1 error on the lcd when cranking and when I am trying to run the truck at really low rpm (I mean idle) I get an error count or 2 when the ecu cuts out. I rarely got errors before, and never while running, even when it would die.

crank_minper=0D will work for a 6cyl. It mean that any measured time for 120 degrees period less than 13*16 usec is considered garbage.

The minimum time it takes the crank to do 120 degrees. The minimum time happens at maximum RPM, (eg. 7000 RPM)\n

primary_trigger=01
secondary_trigger=02
tooth_wheel=17
trigger_tooth=01
another_trigger_tooth=04
crank_minper=0D
tooth_wheel_twidth1=05
tooth_wheel_twidth2=19
cam_sync_r_edge_phase=8D
cam_sync_f_edge_phase=21
reset_engphase_after=D8
ign_tdcdelay=6A
ign_dwell14=2F
ign_dwell6=B9
ign_crank_advance=14
ign_out=70
ignchmax=05

The full config is MembersPage/EricN/Config

And just to re-ask a question

I GIVE UP

The VR trigger is killing me, I have tried many things, even shorted pin 5 and 8 on the LM1815. It definitely worked alot better, but I still get the same dropouts.

This is significant amplitude-difference, but I have no doubt it's possible to make work. If your board is v3.3 with R181 = 100k ? If R181 is 100k, change it to 180k or 220k (150k could work too). If it's v3.0 .. v3.2, see below.
  • Stuck the distributer in the lathe, cut out all the runout. I now go from a highest peak of 7.4v to a lowest peak of 6.9v and it is not around the missing tooth. Even now, it still cuts out.

NEW PLAN

I have a distributer with an optical sensor (eventually was going to end up in the truck anyways). Supply voltage to the sensor is 7 volts from the module. Connect the module and it is 1.24v. The output is 1.24v (while connected) when the window is blocked and 0 when it is not.


BELOW THIS IS ALL GARBAGE, JUST WANT TO SAVE SOME FOR REFERENCE NEXT TIME I GET THE IDEA TO TRY IT

Started over with input trigger ideas. Took a VR sensor and 24 tooth trigger wheel out of a Honda Civic distributer. Ground off 1 tooth, pressed it on to a gutted Unimog distributer (took the whole advance mechanism out). Welded a plate inside, mounted the VR sensor on the plate. Now I have a 24-1 trigger wheel driven by the cam.

inputtrigger.jpg

If I see right, this wheel is very prone to output bad signal at the missing tooth. If you can, record it with a soundcard. To be safe, divide by 50 (or so) using a 100k and a 2k (or so around) resistor. It might output just higher amplitude signal at the missing tooth, or maybe it has a ghost pulse too.


truck is a 6 cyl. I am firing cop coils and using a distributer mounted 24-1 trigger wheel

Distributor mounted ? Are you sure ? Many things below assumed (before I started to correct them) your wheel is crank mounted.

With distributor mounted 24-1 you can do full sequential, and fire the COP coils just once per camrot.


QUESTION 1

After a major ordeal with some dead spark plugs and bad grounds, I got the truck running enough. Only problem is every now and then I get a completely dead half second and then it comes back to life. When cranking, I notice that every now and then the rpm dies off to zero for the same half second then comes back. Likely trigger signal shape problem.

Other than that, the rpm stays pretty constant other than the 3000rpm blip when I hit the start button. If I touch the body of the distributer with a wrench (vr sensor in distributer is my primary input trigger) while the key is on but car is not running, it triggers the ecu and injectors and coils fire a quick shot, enough for big flames out the throttle body.

A:

You most likely have noise problems with your trigger, make sure the distributor is properly grounded and the sensor too if it's supposed to, where do have you grounded the VR Sensor circuit? One pin goes to trigg1 input, other to ground, Near EC36 pin26 and not in a GND5 path.

MORE:

I tried to run a ground wire from the distributer housing to various parts of the block and chasis and eventually tried to the battery, I can still lightly tap the distributer housing and trigger the ecu to fire the some fuel and spark. Is it possible that this is normal? I ran the ground wire for the VR sensor right inside to the ecu so I dont think that one is bad.

The LCD mlp01 page show the trigger error counts as W..

You might also want to capture (in TerminalProgram) the output of Manmdkffmdfff command, especially around the strange behaviour. You can switch off the continuous output by mdf00 or reboot. Captured it, it is all in hex, I see I have to do some perl stuff to make it readable

Here it is\n

64 20 76 9A 79 A6 7F C6 86 25 8C F4 9D 8B A1 CF 
B5 6E D5 9C D8 B3 FA 14 03 5E 21 D6 2A C4 3F 32 
4F D2 85 77 C6 F8 D0 51 0A 16 16 BF AB 6E BA 2A 
C3 3F E9 33 0E 34 19 2C 6D A1 76 26 E1 04 E9 58 
F3 48 F4 8F F5 EC F7 4F F8 A0 F9 CA FB 15 FD 99 
FE 89 FF E5 01 7B 02 FD 04 60 05 C0 07 C4 0A 95 
0E C3 0F F7 11 5B 14 D7 22 0E 4D A1 73 FB A5 20 
E5 31 0B 60 28 73 47 38 6B 68 8A 6D A4 D0 C0 60 
FC F8 15 F2 30 68 4E FA 6A 9C 83 99 9D 7E BA CA 
D3 83 E4 03 F2 92 01 30 0F 73 1D 97 2C B7 3D 74 
4D 5E 5D 2C 6D D9 7F 51 90 DD A2 4A B4 14 DB 1F 
ED F2 01 B4 17 12 2C 57 41 23 56 BA 6E 3D 85 2E 
9B 5C B2 A9 CC 14 E4 DA FC 90 15 DB 32 67 4D 0F 
66 15 80 2E 9C DD B7 F7 D1 5D EB BA 25 77 3F 5F 
5A 9D 79 92 96 45 B0 A3 CB F9 EA 95 07 0B 20 C0 
3B E8 5A 25 76 67 90 A5 AC FB CD 21 EA 66 04 D1 
20 63 3F 31 5B D3 75 AD 90 9C CB B7 E5 9A 00 FD 
20 48 3D 32 57 75 72 99 91 16 AB 95 BE 40 CF 38 
E0 E6 F2 4F 03 28 15 06 28 8C 39 30 46 12 51 FF 
5D FD 69 CC 75 93 81 C1 9C 16 A7 7A B2 45 BD 34 
C7 FE D2 EE DE 25 E9 E9 F5 D5 01 D5 0E 16 1A B7 
26 CC 31 E4 3C B0 47 AF 52 A2 5D A8 69 12 74 FA 
80 E3 8B E6 96 7E AC 3E B7 05 C1 E2 CC E8 D7 C6 
E2 2B EC 26 F6 37 00 47 0A 4C 14 44 1E 4D 28 52 
32 65 3C CE 47 9F 52 75 5D 46 68 5D 73 CB 7F 3A 
8A 97 95 A4 AC 6B B7 D0 C3 8F CF 73 DB 7C E7 56 
F2 E2 FE 9A 0A 5B 16 43 22 9E 2F 36 3B C6 47 BB 
53 75 5F 97 6B B7 77 FB 84 94 91 4A 9D DC AA 74 
B7 41 D2 28 DE F0 EB AD F8 A8 05 AE 12 FE 20 53 
2E 53 3C 59 49 EB 57 22 64 86 71 F4 7F 78 8D 44 
9B 59 A9 8B B7 C4 C6 71 D5 C9 E5 4F F4 93 03 81 
22 20 31 48 41 0C 51 AB 62 94 73 B0 85 6F 98 3E 
AB 68 BF 41 D5 3D EE 7B 09 79 26 F7 4D 68 AD 28 
BF 47 CB 11 D0 74 DB 6A E0 B9 E6 86 F8 A5 FE E7 
04 F1 15 4B 1B 26 27 67 2D 2B 3E 08 42 30 71 CA 
82 00 87 6F 8C 9C 9D A7 B3 09 BE 04 C3 6A C8 4E 
D8 AE ED FA F3 5C F8 76 08 FB 1E E4 2E B5 3B 02 
40 56 45 6D 5F 86 6D 6F 77 76 8C 0C A4 62 A9 49 
B7 81 BC 5D C0 CC C5 42 D3 19 D8 06 DC DF EC 84 
F6 14 FB 45 1D 5B 22 43 27 1C 30 27 43 19 63 91 
6C 5F 75 7C 7E 5D 83 03 87 BD 8C 56 9A 2D 9F 34 
C6 6A CA 8C D8 18 E0 BD E5 17 E9 E6 EE 80 F7 BE 
FC 7C 00 F8 05 B4 14 32 19 98 23 ED 31 3A 43 74 
54 44 69 30 86 1B 8E AF 9A 7D 9E 3F C6 6F CA 85 
CE CA D3 3C DB F6 E4 C6 E8 DB F5 B7 01 F0 06 03 
0A 00 0D E7 11 C7 16 3F 1A C9 1F 72 28 35 2C B2 
35 22 69 3E 6D 80 70 FD 74 86 89 01 8C B2 98 C7 
9C AA A0 81 A4 6C A8 9C B4 79 B8 9E 

Put the carb back on but left the coils and input trigger in place and just ran the spark on the ecu. The same problem still occurs so I am convinced it is a trigger problem. It happens maybe every 15 seconds or so. Gives me a good blast out the intake, caught my oil bath air filter on fire.


QUESTION 2

I thought I had the input trigger lined up but I had to move the distributer to get everything to fire properly. Just to confirm, this is what I did.

I tried to use and put the trigger area in between 2 teeth but it needed to be played with to start the truck, altough that may be related to question #1 with the trigger dropping out. With the engine running, I set the advance tables to zero (not aware of mda.. command? mda28 will force 10 crankdegrees advance, that is decimal 40 * 0.25 degrees; mda01 forces 0.25 degrees advance, mda00 restores normal advance calculation; see refcard on GenBoard/MenuSystem) and pointed my timing light at the crank, adjusted the distributer till #1 was firing dead on tdc.