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IMPORTANT: enter the case-INsensitive alphabetic (no numbers) code AND WRITE SOME SHORT summary of changes (below) if you are saving changes. (not required for previewing changes). Wiki-spamming is not tolerated, will be removed, so it does NOT even show up in history. Spammers go away now. Visit Preferences to set your user name Summary of change: Car is a MK2 1982 VW Scirocco, 1600cc 8-valve K-JET engine with a BLT turbokit installed probably somewhere in the late eighties. Engine has already been prepared for EFI by replacing the K-JET injectors with EFI injectors using custom injector seats and BBM fuel rail. '''VEMS serial number: 2664''' ---- UPDATE 9/5/2010. Engine is running on testbench now with VEMS controlling the injectors and ignition using stock distributor and the optical 4- window sensor in the distributor as coil-type primary trigger. I will tune low-load vacuum sites with the engine on testbench, and then install it to the car and tune the mid/high engine load sites on dyno.. at the same time vems will be set-up to handle boostcontrol aswell. ---- ** Note: You could try this config fore testing http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/PeterJensen/Hall%20trigger/v3.3_n001885-2010.03.23-20.40.53_1.1.70.vemscfg More info: http://www.vems.hu/wiki/index.php?page=MembersPage%2FPeterJensenConsumercarsPolo ---- [http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/v3.3_n002664-2010.03.24-20.34.17.vemscfg testbench config] using firmware 1.1.70. Same config as /PeterJensen/v3.3_n001212-2010.03.22-11.43.24.vemscfg (see below), only ignition outputs have been changed to EC36/24. I have a ECU test-setup on testbench, using a 14-volt DC power supply for power. On testbench I have connected to ECU: * 4-window optical sender in the distributor connected to primary trigger input (EC36/27), spinning the distributor with a drill to get RPM * 12 volts leds to each of injector outputs in use: EC36/7, EC36/8, EC36/19, EC36/20, connected to ground-side of the led, +12v supplied to led directly from the power supply * 12 volt led on the ignition coil output EC36/24, connected to ground-side of the led, +12v to led directly from the power supply. The EC36/24 is a power-IGBT output that is to be wired directly to ground-side of the ignition coil. * IAT temp sensor (same sensor that is going to be used on the engine, from VEMS shop) Rest of the sensors (TPS, MAT, MAP) are already installed into the engine and will be connected when I have injectors/ignition working on testbench and will proceed to on-engine tests. Only outputs that I have succeeded to get to work are the injector outputs. I'm '''unable to get any of the ignition outputs work even when assigning them to miscoutput1''' and configuring to activate the output on min 50RPM. '''Possible cause''' Very good ! Finally from this reasonably detailed information it seems likely that something with the internal LBUS is fried. The most likely cause would be a fried P259 chip that keeps the internal LBUS "blocked". Chip can be purchased and swapped with some soldering experience: http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/addressable-latch-special-purpose-only-p-56.html It's interesting that you got non0 RPM: the p259 chip most often brings the internal 5V supply down, which is necessary for either HALL ( trigger pullup ) or VR (LM1815 supply). So hard to be sure without internal testing. If you send (not registered mail please) it back (''address negotiated in email'') * with some note (refer to "MembersPage/SVIScirocco", or you can even print the first half of the page), * we do generic testing. Unless there is serious problem (like processor, or 3+ chips) we repair what we find until it passes the output functionality tests (no high-temp, or high-current, or vibration test though : tests designed for manufacturing defects, not application tortures, but satisfactory most of the time) for a 38 EUR + 18 EUR shipping fee. If it's something more serious we let you know (150 EUR is worst case: swapping full mainboard to a brand new one, reusing alubos, frontplate, clamping....). ---- '''Fill in the details:''' EC36/xx pin and wire color for each, and other detail as necessary '''Ignition outputs''' - firing order 1,3,4,2. The ignition coil is used with distributor ignition, so only one output: EC36/24 * '''Logiclevel output or power-IGBT output ? ''' * Using ... ampere fuse. * The ignition coil primary measures ... Ohm '''Injector outputs''' * cyl2 * cyl4 * cyl3 * cyl1 '''Other outputs''' * fuel pump * idle valve * boostcontrol * ... ---- ''' IGNITION PROBLEM ''' I think I have something seriously toasted in the board, as; - P259 ch0 outputs +12volts static, measured with DVM towards ground, regardless if the MiscOutput it is assigned to is active or not. - P259 ch4 outputs +2volts static, regardless if the MiscOutput it is assigned to is active or not. - Ignition outputs give static ~0.2volts measured towards +12v. '''Are these logiclevel or power-IGBT outputs ?''' ---- '''TRIGGER Setup''' '''Option 1.''' Stock distributor is fitted with an optical sensor, giving '''one pulse per firing''', approx. 90degress BTDC for each cylinder. Vacuum hose is removed from dizzy to prevent vacuum-based adjustment of ignition advance (trigger position). Without camsync it needs '''distributer''' for ignition of course. This was the first trigger pattern first implemented for 1.0.x firmware (around the same time as missing tooth). * batch injection possible, but semi-sequential recommended (fire only 1 at a time, every time the next one, divider=1). * VEMS can control ignition timing with the distributor ignition ("coil-type" trigger) ** Called 4+1 none missing pattern (but without camsync). '''4 tooth must''' be configured. 2 is WRONG. ** in 1.0.x easy. ** in 1.1.x relatively new firmware needed without camsync (use 1.1.70) and set tooth width to 180 degrees, Next trigger tooth=1, reference tooth array = 0, 3, 2, 1, .. .. .. .. We tested http://www.vems.hu/files/PeterJensen/v3.3_n001212-2010.03.22-11.43.24.vemscfg with c004 trigger on bench (with 1.1.70 firmware). Use only the trigger settings, other config does not match your setup. * --> Updated to firmware 1.1.70 and vemstune-2010-03-08, tested with this config, just changed ignition outputs to reflect my wirings (pin 24). Still no life on the ignition outputs, injector leds flash nicely when spinning the distributor with drill (max about 1200rpm). The ignition "test" functionality in "Ignition Outputs (visual)" -dialog also does not light up any of the ignition leds. You might want to '''post your actual .vemscfg''' config AND .vemslog, so we can see what can be the problem in your case (and we could help). If you don't post your .vemscfg, noone will be able to help. The above definitely works with c004 trigger, so we could spot the difference (below you have very wrong configs, so if you use those instead of what we showed, you'll get nowhere). * Configure some other output for ignition (something that is not even wired) ** Use a LED on this output towards +5V with appr ~270 Ohm series resistance. You can also try a stepper output. * remove the ignition coil fuse and disconnect the ignition coil connector * configure the misc output to the EC36/24 ign output so we can test with TPS * --> i259-6 from ignition outputs and '''configured miscoutput 1 to EC36/24 (i259-6) and configured to trigger on 50min/25000max rpm''' -> when spinning dizzy to get about 500rpm in vemstune, does not light up the test led connected to EC36/24. * if you did not save the above, you can just reboot (ign off/on). ** To be safe, check settings before connecting back ignition coil anyway. ---- '''Alternative trigger OPTIONS''' - not used at the moment, just keep in mind '''Option 2.''' Mount a '''60-2 trigger wheel on the crank ''' pulley and fabricate hall sensor brackets.. Yes, this option would allow wastedspark DIS ignition. '''Option 3:''' '''4-1 on crank''' (3 pulses, 2 of them are appr 60-90 BTDC; pattern is 90,90,180 crankdegrees). This is the simplest, smallest toothcount pattern that allows DIS. * Possible just 3 M8 screws or similar, that [http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/hall-sensor-p-107.html 1GT101DC] sensor can sense. ** always HALL sensor recommended for low toothcount (not VR). ** make an extremely strong sensor mounting bracket (~as strong that you could lift the engine with). Otherwise vibration will likely cause problems. ---- '''Trigger testing''' Files are [http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/ here] like [http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/testbench.vemscfg test.vemscfg] We reproduced this setup and come up with a working - see c004 above. This is all wrong, noone should copy it ! http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/vems_primarytrigger.PNG nr of tooth=2 is wrong. Good value:4 http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/vems_miscoutput.PNG '''NOTE THAT YOU HAVE AN OUTPUT COLLISION ! Ign/6 used for 2 functions. It is NOT GOOD ! ''' (validate in vemstune does not warn about this ???) --> ''' No, I'm using VemsTune-Install-2009-10-02. ''' http://www.vems.hu/files/MembersPage/SVIScirocco/vems_ignoutputs.PNG '''ALSO very WRONG!!! Use 0..3, even if all are the same output !!!'''. The config we showed you has it correctly. Optional: Add document to category: Wiki formatting: * is Bullet list ** Bullet list subentry ... '''Bold''', ---- is horizontal ruler, <code> preformatted text... </code> See wiki editing HELP for tables and other formatting tips and tricks.