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IMPORTANT: enter the case-INsensitive alphabetic (no numbers) code AND WRITE SOME SHORT summary of changes (below) if you are saving changes. (not required for previewing changes). Wiki-spamming is not tolerated, will be removed, so it does NOT even show up in history. Spammers go away now. Visit Preferences to set your user name Summary of change: '''Trigger related page for MembersPage/DTechnologies/Hayabusa project''' I need to configure the firmware for my engine. '''Basic info''' * 4 cylinder, dual overhead cam, 1298cc displacement * Redline: 10,900rpm * Firing order: 1-2-4-3 (inner 2 cylinders and outer 2 cylinders move in unison) ** I have a picture showing the order and (very) rough timing taken from the service manual. I've posted it below. * '''crank and cam triggers involved''' - both are variable reluctance sensors. The 2nd LM1815 bought separately (only 1 LM1815 is populated by default) is already mounted on board (?). ---- '''Original Manual Timing Diagram''' Unfortunately, this is as much info as the manual can provide. It's great at showing the relationship between the sensors, coils, and injectors...but no numbers to speak of. http://members.shaw.ca/dtechnologies/pics/hayabusa_timing.GIF * '''Question:''' If the above diagram shows the cam pulse as being during the exhaust phase of cylinder 1 (180 to 360 degrees of 720), and this data can be trusted, is that enough of a parameter to program the firmware for cam sync? ** no: the current STABLE1_0 branch firmware requires N-m type multitooth wheel or 1 pulse per event ("coil type") trigger signal. * I just thought of something. If I'm sparking 2 cylinders at once anyhow because I'm using an EDIS style wasted-spark coilpack... why would I even need the cam sensor? Have I been spinning my wheels in regards to cam sync? If I could leave it disconnected, that would simplify things. ** as you say, '''if 8-1 or 16-1 or similar toothwheel provides cranksync, you don't need camsync, you can just use wasted spark like most of us do''' * Are you sure about wasted spark?, Hayabusa have cam sensor and genboard can synchronize it, Hayabusa have Coil on Plug, Are going to change it to a simple wasted spark coilpack??? ** I have already installed an MSD Blaster EDIS coil. The 2 outside cylinders will fire together and the 2 inside cylinders will fire together. Here is a picture of my coil install: http://members.shaw.ca/dtechnologies/pics/webbusasparkwires.jpg * CAM-sync and timed injection(-ending) is not needed to fire injectors once every cam-rotation (which is desirable at 12000 RPM). In fact the common setup is just this: crank-sync only and fire injectors once every cam-rotation. It's possible with either batch or sequential injector arrangement, just a matter of setting up h[0] and config.alternate. * with 8-1 trigger any reasonable RPM ( > 40000 ) would be possible * In hayabusa engine you can use the LM1815 for crank sensor, but not for cam sensor , cam sensor is too close to Cyl 1 Coil-on-Plug and it give a lot of problems, with a simple osciloscope you can see what is the problem. Fortunately there are a simple (and very used in races) solution, there are a hall sensor in RS-components (RS-code 235-5706) It is a honeywell hall sensor like ABS one, original Yamaha R1 have also a hall sensor in cam. ** I haven't installed the second LM1815 yet...maybe that will turn out to be a good thing. * GSXR have a small window (it is a threaded cap in right side of engine) it have a mark to locate TDC, you can remove all sparks and then push start button and adjust TDC with a timing light. - Jose L Cortes - ---- '''Crank trigger''' * there are 8 equidistant teeth on the crank * positions: ... I don't know the timing yet ---- '''Cam trigger''' * single tooth (natch) * timing: I don't know the timing yet ---- '''How do I figure out the timing?''' - with the least amount of fuss We usually remove a sparkplug, and move the car in gear 5 until the given engine is at TDC. Than look at the trigger wheels. There are often marks on the crankwheel (that can be at TDC or other position in custom-hacked setups) This is something I've been fearing. I've had the engine apart but I can't determine anything that way because the sensors themselves are mounted inside the covers (valve cover & stator cover). At best I'd only be able to guess how many degree's forward or back they are of the tooth/teeth. ---- '''How to I set up the firmware appropriately?''' The bad news is that current firmware does not support this crankwheel directly, unless engine is a 16cyl. '''Options:''' * bolt on another wheel, eg. 12-1 (or 36-1 or 60-2). Feasible ? ** 2003 Hayabusa uses a 24-1 wheel. The wheel is also the magnet wheel for the generator...so it's a bit expensive. The search for a used one has been going on for months. ** Aftermarket options are available. Fast by Gast makes a 2 magnet trigger wheel which is driven by starter gears. Requires entire starter housing to be replaced with custom assembly cnc'd out of billet aluminum...even more expensive unfortunately. * grind off 1 tooth from crank to get a 8-1 multitooth wheel ** Teeth are very wide. This would definately cause balance issues. * firmware modification: feasible, but significant table-testing needed ** Considering my inexperience, this might not be the best path. * Adding a magnets to the wheel and using an aftermarket sensor? ---- '''A good idea...maybe.''' I think I've come up with the least expensive solution yet...I'll have to do some inquiring and see what kind of quote I can get. The original stator looks like this: http://members.shaw.ca/dtechnologies/pics/hayabusa_stator.GIF Because the 'teeth' are so large, I think I could have each one cut into 2 or 3 at a machine shop. Then have 1 of these teeth ground out and the whole assembly balanced. This would create a 16-1 or 24-1 toothed gear. As long as it's not prohibitively expensive, I think it should be the best option. I'll have to pull the stator out and bring it to some machinist friends and see what they can do...and compare the cost to a new 2003 wheel. * you could maybe fill up (with magnetic material) one toth to get 8-1 * maybe cut 7 notches to get 16-1 Anyway, when machining, it's a good idea to record the VR signal with notebook soundcard before finalizing the milling (so height-depth can be finetuned). These wheels are usually not very sensitive to balancing. * Just priced out a new 2003 Rotor. $645.68 CAD. Machine shop here I come! Optional: Add document to category: Wiki formatting: * is Bullet list ** Bullet list subentry ... '''Bold''', ---- is horizontal ruler, <code> preformatted text... </code> See wiki editing HELP for tables and other formatting tips and tricks.